I am relatively new to all-grain brewing. I am performing single step
infusion mashes. The last beer I made was a light ale. It was very cloudy,
right from the beginning. After a few days, it looked like quite a lot of
the yeast had fallen out, but was still very cloudy. I took a sample to a
lab and looked at it under a microscope. There were very few yeast cells,
but quite a lot of other, irregularly shaped particles about the size of
bacteria, but not rounded like a bacterium would be. I put a sample through
a 0.45 micron filter and it was completely clear as far as I could tell.

I did not expect Isinglas to do any good (it is for flocculating yeast and I
had already verified yeast was not a problem), but I added it to half the
batch at bottling and none to the other half. As I thought, it had no
effect. It is not chill haze because it is present whether cold or warm.

Does anyone have any good personal experience with what the likely cause it
and what the solutions are? I think it must be either unconverted starch
grains or protein.

One other observation; I have not been able to get a very high efficiency
with mashing and my wort is always low on OG, this batch was probably at
1.035 when I expected closer to 1.045. I think the problem is with the
grind; it does not appear fine enough. I don't have my own mill and it is
ground for me at the homebrew shop, but they are mostly wine people and not
homebrewers themselves.

Yea One more suggestion.. Seep the Extract. Not boil the extract. Don't let
the grains boil. Turn the stove off when the grains are in. Also use 1-2
spoons of Irish Moss for clarifying beer.
I have puchased a cloth (call it cheese cloth if you like). I leave it in
the primary fermentation.
I hope this should help.

Sarge/
"Denny Conn" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:407D618A.884E55C9@privacy.net...[color=blue]
> "news.utk.edu" wrote:
>[color=green]
> > One other observation; I have not been able to get a very high[/color][/color]
efficiency[color=blue][color=green]
> > with mashing and my wort is always low on OG, this batch was probably at
> > 1.035 when I expected closer to 1.045. I think the problem is with the
> > grind; it does not appear fine enough. I don't have my own mill and it[/color][/color]
is[color=blue][color=green]
> > ground for me at the homebrew shop, but they are mostly wine people and[/color][/color]
not[color=blue][color=green]
> > homebrewers themselves.[/color]
>
> Low efficiency is very often related to undercrushing. If the shop
> where you buy your grain can't or won't adjust their mill, ask them to
> run it through twice.
>
> --------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
>
> Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us[/color]

Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Yea One more suggestion.. Seep the Extract. Not boil the extract. Don't let
> the grains boil. Turn the stove off when the grains are in. Also use 1-2
> spoons of Irish Moss for clarifying beer.
> I have puchased a cloth (call it cheese cloth if you like). I leave it in
> the primary fermentation.
> I hope this should help.[/color]

Sarge, he's doing AG, so he's not using extract. I don't get the
cheesecloth in the primary thing..why do you put cheesecloth in your
primary? What does it do?

-------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us

I keep the grains ,flavoring hops, bittering hops in a Panty or a cheese
cloth. Heat the Kettle to about 150 deg c. Turn the heat off. Suspend the
grains to seep extract.Add bittering hops and Irish Moss during the final
stages. Boil some more. Then keep the grains suspended during the Primary
fermentation. Reasons/Examples - Some grains take longer to break down or if
I am using Rice Hulls for a flavor. I dont know. I just do it and it
works.Is it wrong?
What do ya recommend?
Sarge/
"Denny Conn" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4080228B.55C32F92@privacy.net...[color=blue]
> Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > Yea One more suggestion.. Seep the Extract. Not boil the extract. Don't[/color][/color]
let[color=blue][color=green]
> > the grains boil. Turn the stove off when the grains are in. Also use[/color][/color]
1-2[color=blue][color=green]
> > spoons of Irish Moss for clarifying beer.
> > I have puchased a cloth (call it cheese cloth if you like). I leave it[/color][/color]
in[color=blue][color=green]
> > the primary fermentation.
> > I hope this should help.[/color]
>
> Sarge, he's doing AG, so he's not using extract. I don't get the
> cheesecloth in the primary thing..why do you put cheesecloth in your
> primary? What does it do?
>
> -------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
>
> Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us[/color]

Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=blue]
>
> I keep the grains ,flavoring hops, bittering hops in a Panty or a cheese
> cloth. Heat the Kettle to about 150 deg c. Turn the heat off. Suspend the
> grains to seep extract.Add bittering hops and Irish Moss during the final
> stages. Boil some more. Then keep the grains suspended during the Primary
> fermentation. Reasons/Examples - Some grains take longer to break down or if
> I am using Rice Hulls for a flavor. I dont know. I just do it and it
> works.Is it wrong?
> What do ya recommend?[/color]

It's certainly not a brewing proicess I've ever heard of before, and I
thought I'd heard about all of them! :) There is absolutely no need to
keep the grains in the fermenter. There will be no further extraction
(or breakdown) by doinfg so. Rice hulls for flavor? They don't have
any flavor. They're used in an all grain batch when you use huisless
grist such as wheat or rye...they provide the husks to aid lautering.
And if you're saying you boil the grains, you might try not doing that.
It extracts tannins which can give your beer a harsh taste.

Have you ever looked at [url]www.howtobrew.com?[/url] It's about the best source
of accurate brewing info around.

--------->Denny

--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us

Good reading material because it is written by an Engineer. (Ha .. Ha)
I am familiar with Tannins. I do not boil the grains. Only extract for
flavors
Next time when I brew belgian brews I will follow your guidelines.
Nothing wrong with my brews.
The author of that web page is definitly your crack_pot
Sarge/
"Denny Conn" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4083F7A8.FBC6C7BF@privacy.net...[color=blue]
> Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > I keep the grains ,flavoring hops, bittering hops in a Panty or a cheese
> > cloth. Heat the Kettle to about 150 deg c. Turn the heat off. Suspend[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> > grains to seep extract.Add bittering hops and Irish Moss during the[/color][/color]
final[color=blue][color=green]
> > stages. Boil some more. Then keep the grains suspended during the[/color][/color]
Primary[color=blue][color=green]
> > fermentation. Reasons/Examples - Some grains take longer to break down[/color][/color]
or if[color=blue][color=green]
> > I am using Rice Hulls for a flavor. I dont know. I just do it and it
> > works.Is it wrong?
> > What do ya recommend?[/color]
>
> It's certainly not a brewing proicess I've ever heard of before, and I
> thought I'd heard about all of them! :) There is absolutely no need to
> keep the grains in the fermenter. There will be no further extraction
> (or breakdown) by doinfg so. Rice hulls for flavor? They don't have
> any flavor. They're used in an all grain batch when you use huisless
> grist such as wheat or rye...they provide the husks to aid lautering.
> And if you're saying you boil the grains, you might try not doing that.
> It extracts tannins which can give your beer a harsh taste.
>
> Have you ever looked at [url]www.howtobrew.com?[/url] It's about the best source
> of accurate brewing info around.
>
> --------->Denny
>
> --
> Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
>
> Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us[/color]

Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Good reading material because it is written by an Engineer. (Ha .. Ha)
> I am familiar with Tannins. I do not boil the grains. Only extract for
> flavors[/color]

Well, I still don't understand tghe resoning behind grains in the
fermenter, but if it works for you...
[color=blue]
> Next time when I brew belgian brews I will follow your guidelines.
> Nothing wrong with my brews.
> The author of that web page is definitly your crack_pot[/color]

Nope, John Palmer is one of the most respected homebrew writers around.
His "How to Brew" has pretty much replaced Papazian's "New Complete Joy
of Homebrewing" as the bible for homebrewers.

------------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

No disrespect to you Danny, Wally taught me this to keep the grains in the
primary .
John Palmer is probably a good writer not necessarily a good brewer. I know
a guy like him at the Mayo clinic who published a Periodic Table of Beers. I
dont think I need to be a perfectionist to be a Brewer. I like my beer
strong and in 22 oz bottles and I dont like using Beer calculators for Aroma
and gravities.I dont understand why so many brewers having problems with
head retension. So that is my answer-- The way I do it and why I do it..
Cheers!
Sarge/
"Denny Conn" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:408692D2.3EEA46C6@privacy.net...[color=blue]
> Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > Good reading material because it is written by an Engineer. (Ha .. Ha)
> > I am familiar with Tannins. I do not boil the grains. Only extract for
> > flavors[/color]
>
> Well, I still don't understand tghe resoning behind grains in the
> fermenter, but if it works for you...
>[color=green]
> > Next time when I brew belgian brews I will follow your guidelines.
> > Nothing wrong with my brews.
> > The author of that web page is definitly your crack_pot[/color]
>
> Nope, John Palmer is one of the most respected homebrew writers around.
> His "How to Brew" has pretty much replaced Papazian's "New Complete Joy
> of Homebrewing" as the bible for homebrewers.
>
> ------------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
>
> Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com[/color]

Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=blue]
>
> No disrespect to you Danny, Wally taught me this to keep the grains in the
> primary .[/color]

No disrespect taken, but I'd appreciate it if you'd ask Wally about the
brewing science behind his recommendation. It just makes no sense.
[color=blue]
> John Palmer is probably a good writer not necessarily a good brewer. I know
> a guy like him at the Mayo clinic who published a Periodic Table of Beers. I
> dont think I need to be a perfectionist to be a Brewer. I like my beer
> strong and in 22 oz bottles and I dont like using Beer calculators for Aroma
> and gravities.I dont understand why so many brewers having problems with
> head retension. So that is my answer-- The way I do it and why I do it..
> Cheers![/color]

Well, that's why we all brew..so we can do it like we like it. But if
you recommend offbeat techniques to others, it helps to be able to back
up your recommendations. If you look a little closer at Palmer's
credentials, I think you'd be impressed.

BTW, I like my beer strong and in 5 gal. kegs! :)

--------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us

Will do, next time I go see "Wally" while shopping for supplies. Just
curious, How do you extract if there is no cheese cloth or Tube sock (That I
call it Panty liner). I have used that over and over. My concern is cleaning
it because it can have iron deposits and get rusted if you keep it in the
primary.Did you ever use Rice or wheat hulls and what was the advantage in
Belgian brews?Where do you get your supplies for making Dutch and Belgian
brews?
Thank you.
"Denny Conn" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4086BD79.E8F11DA4@privacy.net...[color=blue]
> Sarbjit Sikka wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > No disrespect to you Danny, Wally taught me this to keep the grains in[/color][/color]
the[color=blue][color=green]
> > primary .[/color]
>
> No disrespect taken, but I'd appreciate it if you'd ask Wally about the
> brewing science behind his recommendation. It just makes no sense.
>[color=green]
> > John Palmer is probably a good writer not necessarily a good brewer. I[/color][/color]
know[color=blue][color=green]
> > a guy like him at the Mayo clinic who published a Periodic Table of[/color][/color]
Beers. I[color=blue][color=green]
> > dont think I need to be a perfectionist to be a Brewer. I like my beer
> > strong and in 22 oz bottles and I dont like using Beer calculators for[/color][/color]
Aroma[color=blue][color=green]
> > and gravities.I dont understand why so many brewers having problems with
> > head retension. So that is my answer-- The way I do it and why I do it..
> > Cheers![/color]
>
> Well, that's why we all brew..so we can do it like we like it. But if
> you recommend offbeat techniques to others, it helps to be able to back
> up your recommendations. If you look a little closer at Palmer's
> credentials, I think you'd be impressed.
>
> BTW, I like my beer strong and in 5 gal. kegs! :)
>
> --------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.
>
> Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us[/color]