Just made a batch of sima -- no, not Zima. The recipe is lemons,
water, sugar and yeast left to perk overnight(!), then bottled with
added sugar and 3 raisins. This is supposed to sit around for a couple
of days until the raisins rise to the top. Then the bottles are
refrigerated and ready to drink. I made this a number of years ago,
and the result was a mildy alcoholic, somewhat fizzy lemonade. Yes, I
used bread yeast.

Given that ambient temperatures are probably a good deal warmer than
this recipe's Scandinavian origin, it shouldn't have been a surprise
that those raisins zipped to the top lickety split.

So here I am with 4 quarts of lemony liquid that's got enough yeast in
it to supply a bakery for years. It's only been refrigerated for a few
hours, but shows no sign of clearing, although there's quite a bit of
yeast sludge at the bottom.

Is there any relatively simple way I can make this drinkable?
Actually, it *is* drinkable, but only if one is very fond of yeast.
Would using some kind of brewing/wine yeast significantly improve this
simple recipe? Is there an easy way to fliter out the yeast? Any clue
as to whether the yeast *will* settle or not, and if so, how I get the
stuff out of the bottle and into a glass without stirring it up?

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:52:22 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>To remove the excess yeast, you could rack the sima and add a fining agent
>to it, such as isinglas or gelatin, then rack again after a week.
>
>Time may be your ally here too: My brother made some dandelion wine with
>bread yeast (we were kids!), and it took 2 or 3 years before it was really
>drinkable.
>
>As to the type of yeast to use: I used to use Montrachet wine yeast when
>making mead (honey wine), because the flavor profile of the yeast didn't
>dominate the natural honey flavor. You could also try some sort of
>"neutral" brewer's yeast and see which works better.
>
>"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:s2klhvc23j3pnosualeeatbalm9skq8c0g@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> Just made a batch of sima -- no, not Zima. The recipe is lemons,
>> water, sugar and yeast left to perk overnight(!), then bottled with
>> added sugar and 3 raisins. This is supposed to sit around for a couple
>> of days until the raisins rise to the top. Then the bottles are
>> refrigerated and ready to drink. I made this a number of years ago,
>> and the result was a mildy alcoholic, somewhat fizzy lemonade. Yes, I
>> used bread yeast.
>>
>> Given that ambient temperatures are probably a good deal warmer than
>> this recipe's Scandinavian origin, it shouldn't have been a surprise
>> that those raisins zipped to the top lickety split.
>>
>> So here I am with 4 quarts of lemony liquid that's got enough yeast in
>> it to supply a bakery for years. It's only been refrigerated for a few
>> hours, but shows no sign of clearing, although there's quite a bit of
>> yeast sludge at the bottom.
>>
>> Is there any relatively simple way I can make this drinkable?
>> Actually, it *is* drinkable, but only if one is very fond of yeast.
>> Would using some kind of brewing/wine yeast significantly improve this
>> simple recipe? Is there an easy way to fliter out the yeast? Any clue
>> as to whether the yeast *will* settle or not, and if so, how I get the
>> stuff out of the bottle and into a glass without stirring it up?[/color]
>[/color]

Thanks, Bill. "Racking" is siphoning the liquid off the yeast
sediment? And re-bottling?

I had an idea of pouring this stuff through a coffee filter and
re-bottling with very small amount of sugar. Why is this impossible?
[color=blue]
>2 or 3 years before it was really drinkable.[/color]

I'm *not* going to keep 4 quart bottles in my 'fridge for 2-3
years.:-) The recipe, which I have seen 2-3 versions of, says to
ferment the mix for 12 hrs; bottle with raisins; and refrigerate for
use when the raisins rise to the top (carried aloft by little bubbles
of CO2). Since it's of Scandinavian origin (and I made it years ago in
a cooler climate), I imagine the 'sunk raisin' stage should really
last more than 10 hrs, which may make a difference.

One Q about wine/brewing yeast vs bread -- do the brewing strains
produce less, um, excess yeast, or simply better flavor? I'm not
concerned with making a gourmet treat to be discussed in terms like
"full-bodied with just a hint of blackberry." Just fizzy lemonade with
a (short) history.

Hello Again,

"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:l58qhv878bcl7btd0bloltdctdsv0f3ne7@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
> Thanks, Bill. "Racking" is siphoning the liquid off the yeast
> sediment? And re-bottling?[/color]
Correct. I drop a siphon tube into the carboy containing my beer or wine,
and draw off all the liquid, leaving the dregs ("trub" or "must") at the
bottom. It's then ready for rebottling. No harm in this, but, as always,
be sure that anything that comes in contact with the liquid has been
properly sterilized.
[color=blue]
> I had an idea of pouring this stuff through a coffee filter and
> re-bottling with very small amount of sugar. Why is this impossible?[/color]

A coffee filter may collect the larger sediment, but I don't think the
"mesh" is sufficiently small to filter out the tiny yeast cells. No problem
re-priming with a bit of sugar (for the sake of sanitation, I would make a
sugar water solution, boil it, chill it, and then add it to the re-bottled
sima).
[color=blue]
> One Q about wine/brewing yeast vs bread -- do the brewing strains
> produce less, um, excess yeast, or simply better flavor? I'm not
> concerned with making a gourmet treat to be discussed in terms like
> "full-bodied with just a hint of blackberry." Just fizzy lemonade with
> a (short) history.[/color]

I don't know which kind of yeast is the more prolific (wine/brewing vs.
bread), but just from the standpoint of making a tasty drink, I would choose
non-bread yeast. Also, bread yeast (I've been told) has been developed to
create CO2 (to make the bread rise), whereas beer and wine yeast have been
cultivated for flavor and for the production of alcohol as well as CO2.

One more thing: Some kinds of brewer's yeast are more flocculent than
others. This means that they tend, to a greater or lesser degree, to clump
together, and settle to the bottom of the fermentation vessel. You may want
to choose a yeast that is very flocculent, so it will settle out more
quickly. (Wyeast and White Labs are two well-known yeast labs, whose web
sites are well deserving of a visit for more information on this topic.)

HTH,
Bill Bell

"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:l58qhv878bcl7btd0bloltdctdsv0f3ne7@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> I had an idea of pouring this stuff through a coffee filter and
> re-bottling with very small amount of sugar. Why is this impossible?[/color]

I am not sure whether or not is is impossible, but I am fairly sure that it
will make your beer taste bad. You will be oxidizing the crap out of it.
--
Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at [url]www.listermann.com[/url]

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.

[color=blue]
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:52:22 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >To remove the excess yeast, you could rack the sima and add a fining[/color][/color]
agent[color=blue][color=green]
> >to it, such as isinglas or gelatin, then rack again after a week.
> >
> >Time may be your ally here too: My brother made some dandelion wine with
> >bread yeast (we were kids!), and it took 2 or 3 years before it was[/color][/color]
really[color=blue][color=green]
> >drinkable.
> >
> >As to the type of yeast to use: I used to use Montrachet wine yeast when
> >making mead (honey wine), because the flavor profile of the yeast didn't
> >dominate the natural honey flavor. You could also try some sort of
> >"neutral" brewer's yeast and see which works better.
> >
> >"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:s2klhvc23j3pnosualeeatbalm9skq8c0g@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> >> Just made a batch of sima -- no, not Zima. The recipe is lemons,
> >> water, sugar and yeast left to perk overnight(!), then bottled with
> >> added sugar and 3 raisins. This is supposed to sit around for a couple
> >> of days until the raisins rise to the top. Then the bottles are
> >> refrigerated and ready to drink. I made this a number of years ago,
> >> and the result was a mildy alcoholic, somewhat fizzy lemonade. Yes, I
> >> used bread yeast.
> >>
> >> Given that ambient temperatures are probably a good deal warmer than
> >> this recipe's Scandinavian origin, it shouldn't have been a surprise
> >> that those raisins zipped to the top lickety split.
> >>
> >> So here I am with 4 quarts of lemony liquid that's got enough yeast in
> >> it to supply a bakery for years. It's only been refrigerated for a few
> >> hours, but shows no sign of clearing, although there's quite a bit of
> >> yeast sludge at the bottom.
> >>
> >> Is there any relatively simple way I can make this drinkable?
> >> Actually, it *is* drinkable, but only if one is very fond of yeast.
> >> Would using some kind of brewing/wine yeast significantly improve this
> >> simple recipe? Is there an easy way to fliter out the yeast? Any clue
> >> as to whether the yeast *will* settle or not, and if so, how I get the
> >> stuff out of the bottle and into a glass without stirring it up?[/color]
> >[/color]
>
> Thanks, Bill. "Racking" is siphoning the liquid off the yeast
> sediment? And re-bottling?
>
>[color=green]
> >2 or 3 years before it was really drinkable.[/color]
>
> I'm *not* going to keep 4 quart bottles in my 'fridge for 2-3
> years.:-) The recipe, which I have seen 2-3 versions of, says to
> ferment the mix for 12 hrs; bottle with raisins; and refrigerate for
> use when the raisins rise to the top (carried aloft by little bubbles
> of CO2). Since it's of Scandinavian origin (and I made it years ago in
> a cooler climate), I imagine the 'sunk raisin' stage should really
> last more than 10 hrs, which may make a difference.
>
> One Q about wine/brewing yeast vs bread -- do the brewing strains
> produce less, um, excess yeast, or simply better flavor? I'm not
> concerned with making a gourmet treat to be discussed in terms like
> "full-bodied with just a hint of blackberry." Just fizzy lemonade with
> a (short) history.[/color]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:41:11 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:l58qhv878bcl7btd0bloltdctdsv0f3ne7@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>> Thanks, Bill. "Racking" is siphoning the liquid off the yeast
>> sediment? And re-bottling?[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>Correct. I drop a siphon tube into the carboy containing my beer or wine,
>and draw off all the liquid, leaving the dregs ("trub" or "must") at the
>bottom. It's then ready for rebottling. No harm in this, but, as always,
>be sure that anything that comes in contact with the liquid has been
>properly sterilized.[/color]

Well, I can see that the first problem is that this liquid (5qts
water, plus sugar, lemon, and yeast) is fermented in a big bowl or pot
and then, according to directions, strained through a sieve and
bottled. Obviously with all the yeast still burbbling about happily in
the mix.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> I had an idea of pouring this stuff through a coffee filter and
>> re-bottling with very small amount of sugar. Why is this impossible?[/color]
>
>A coffee filter may collect the larger sediment, but I don't think the
>"mesh" is sufficiently small to filter out the tiny yeast cells. No problem
>re-priming with a bit of sugar (for the sake of sanitation, I would make a
>sugar water solution, boil it, chill it, and then add it to the re-bottled
>sima).[/color]

My thought was that the filter *would* remove a lot of the floating
yeast, while leaving enough for a civilized 2nd fermentation that
might not muck up the entire bottle. I can handle some yeast on the
bottom with either siphoning or (very) careful pouring.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> One Q about wine/brewing yeast vs bread -- do the brewing strains
>> produce less, um, excess yeast, or simply better flavor? I'm not
>> concerned with making a gourmet treat ...Just fizzy lemonade with
>> a (short) history.[/color]
>
>I don't know which kind of yeast is the more prolific (wine/brewing vs.
>bread), but just from the standpoint of making a tasty drink, I would choose
>non-bread yeast. Also, bread yeast (I've been told) has been developed to
>create CO2 (to make the bread rise), whereas beer and wine yeast have been
>cultivated for flavor and for the production of alcohol as well as CO2.
>
>One more thing: Some kinds of brewer's yeast are more flocculent than
>others. This means that they tend, to a greater or lesser degree, to clump
>together, and settle to the bottom of the fermentation vessel. You may want
>to choose a yeast that is very flocculent, so it will settle out more
>quickly. (Wyeast and White Labs are two well-known yeast labs, whose web
>sites are well deserving of a visit for more information on this topic.)[/color]

Thanks for the tip. Now I'm wondering how I can recycle this yeast
for breadmaking. I haven't made bread in a while, and was startled to
see the price of a little 3-envelope strip in the grocery store.
Almost cheaper to buy bread! Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a
bread starter with what's in the bottom of the bottles. Is there an
FAQ for the group that includes info in saving yeast? Or a thread I
might pursue with Google groups? I can see it now: 'Frogleg's Famous
Sima Sourdough.' But it the yeast can be dried/jarred/saved somehow,
that would be good, too. No point in buying what you can grow
yourself. :-)

"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:im72ivg88cine608cmj66kks38p1kqh2pi@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:41:11 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tip. Now I'm wondering how I can recycle this yeast
> for breadmaking. I haven't made bread in a while, and was startled to
> see the price of a little 3-envelope strip in the grocery store.
> Almost cheaper to buy bread! Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a
> bread starter with what's in the bottom of the bottles. Is there an
> FAQ for the group that includes info in saving yeast? Or a thread I
> might pursue with Google groups? I can see it now: 'Frogleg's Famous
> Sima Sourdough.' But it the yeast can be dried/jarred/saved somehow,
> that would be good, too. No point in buying what you can grow
> yourself. :-)[/color]

I'm certain there are bread-making related newsgroups out there. I'm a
baker myself (that is to say, I own and use a bread-machine) and buy my
bread yeast in little jars. I would think you could certainly add some
sludge from one of your bottles to your bread dough, so long as there was
enough yeast in it to make it rise properly. And sourdough makers have a
long tradition of saving part of their dough to use as a starter for the
next batch. "Friendship cakes" too.

Bill

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:15:30 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:im72ivg88cine608cmj66kks38p1kqh2pi@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:41:11 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the tip. Now I'm wondering how I can recycle this yeast
>> for breadmaking. I haven't made bread in a while, and was startled to
>> see the price of a little 3-envelope strip in the grocery store.
>> Almost cheaper to buy bread! Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a
>> bread starter with what's in the bottom of the bottles. Is there an
>> FAQ for the group that includes info in saving yeast? Or a thread I
>> might pursue with Google groups? I can see it now: 'Frogleg's Famous
>> Sima Sourdough.' But it the yeast can be dried/jarred/saved somehow,
>> that would be good, too. No point in buying what you can grow
>> yourself. :-)[/color]
>
>I'm certain there are bread-making related newsgroups out there. I'm a
>baker myself (that is to say, I own and use a bread-machine)[/color]

I guess if I'm doing jackleg brewing, I can't cast nasturtiums at
bread machines, but... :-)

Report from the field: I put one bottle of my 'lemonade' through a
coffee filter today (after 1/4th foamed over when I opened the
[refrigerated] bottle. Fortunately, I did this over the sink). It took
forever -- evidently the yeast really clogs up a paper surface. Did
not appear to appreciably clear the brew. I cleaned the bottle, put in
1/4 tsp of sugar (too hot to make syrup) and 3 more raisins, which
have already risen to the top. This is becoming more of an
experimental process than a brew. Where am I likely to find a bit of
plastic tubing to try and siphon the next bottle? Hardware store? Home
Depot?

Bread starter not started yet. I'll just rinse the filter into a bowl,
add some flour and see if it perks. What other uses might there be for
bloomin' yeast? Do you think I might patch the roof with it?

Hello,
You can get suitable plastic tubing from Home Depot, or any decent homebrew
supply shop, and also from an aquarium supply store.

I had another bright idea (that's two this week!) for clarifying alcoholic
beverages: A wine filter! My filter is made by Vin-Brite (I think that's
the name) and uses special round paper pads of sufficient fineness to remove
all kinds of junk from the wine. It really polishes it up, although the
process can be slow. Some people use a pump to speed things along; I rely
upon good ole gravity.

On this note: I've never tried to filter my homebrew beer (with the
Vin-Brite or anything else) because of the risk of contamination. I'd like
to attempt a Kristall-Weizen one of these days. Have any of our group had
any experience with filtering their beer? Methods? Results?

Thanks,
Bill

"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:l0h3ivcub7v3a1188l033cpu0jabip9igj@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:15:30 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >"Frogleg" <frogleg@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:im72ivg88cine608cmj66kks38p1kqh2pi@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:41:11 GMT, "Bill Bell" <wbell1@bellsouth.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the tip. Now I'm wondering how I can recycle this yeast
> >> for breadmaking. I haven't made bread in a while, and was startled to
> >> see the price of a little 3-envelope strip in the grocery store.
> >> Almost cheaper to buy bread! Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a
> >> bread starter with what's in the bottom of the bottles. Is there an
> >> FAQ for the group that includes info in saving yeast? Or a thread I
> >> might pursue with Google groups? I can see it now: 'Frogleg's Famous
> >> Sima Sourdough.' But it the yeast can be dried/jarred/saved somehow,
> >> that would be good, too. No point in buying what you can grow
> >> yourself. :-)[/color]
> >
> >I'm certain there are bread-making related newsgroups out there. I'm a
> >baker myself (that is to say, I own and use a bread-machine)[/color]
>
> I guess if I'm doing jackleg brewing, I can't cast nasturtiums at
> bread machines, but... :-)
>
> Report from the field: I put one bottle of my 'lemonade' through a
> coffee filter today (after 1/4th foamed over when I opened the
> [refrigerated] bottle. Fortunately, I did this over the sink). It took
> forever -- evidently the yeast really clogs up a paper surface. Did
> not appear to appreciably clear the brew. I cleaned the bottle, put in
> 1/4 tsp of sugar (too hot to make syrup) and 3 more raisins, which
> have already risen to the top. This is becoming more of an
> experimental process than a brew. Where am I likely to find a bit of
> plastic tubing to try and siphon the next bottle? Hardware store? Home
> Depot?
>
> Bread starter not started yet. I'll just rinse the filter into a bowl,
> add some flour and see if it perks. What other uses might there be for
> bloomin' yeast? Do you think I might patch the roof with it?[/color]

A recipe I had from someone else.
Notes at bottom are not my own.

SIMA

A traditional finnish drink made for May day celebrations.

INGREDIENTS [for 5 gallons]:

5 cups white sugar

5 cups brown sugar

water to make 5 gallons

1.25 teaspoons of grape tannin

10 large lemons

1 package of champagne yeast

1 cup of dextrose [for bottling]

PROCEDURE:

Rehydrate yeast as per instuctions, set aside. Pour 2 gallons of water in
carboy. Mix grape tannin with a little warm water, dissolve thoroughly, put
n carboy. Peel half of the lemons, making sure to get only the yellow part
of the rind. Squeeze the juice out of the lemons. Strain the juice to get
out any pulp or seeds. Put the sugars, lemon juice, lemon peel, and 2
gallons of water in pot. Stir till sugars are dissolved. Bring to a boil.
Boil for 15 minutes. Strain into carboy. stir wort well. When temprature of
wort is between 75 and 80 degrees, pitch yeast, stir well and top off with
water. Ferment till fermentation stops, rack to another carboy and let sit
till clear. Dissolve dextrose with 1 cup of water, put in bottling bucket.
Rack wort to bottling bucket and gently stir to mix with dextrose. Bottle
and let sit for at least 2 weeks. Drink cold.

NOTES/COMMENTS:

I used golden brown sugar, but i bet it would be better with dark brown
sugar. This recipe can also be hopped, mostly for aroma and not bitterness.
you can also experiment with the recipe, maybe replace the white sugar with
dextrose or the brown sugar with molasses, honey or pure maple syrup. It
probably used honey originally.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:44:51 GMT, "spearfox" <spearfox@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>A recipe I had from someone else.
>Notes at bottom are not my own.
>
>SIMA
>
>A traditional finnish drink made for May day celebrations.[/color]
<snip recipe>

Interesting. What does "grape tannin" do, in general? My recipe is
kitchen-simple: water, lemons, sugar (brown & white), and "yeast."
'Brewed' in a big bowl. The batch-size is 5 quarts, and the original
fermation time overnight.

I have been gathering info and advice for about 10 days now and I
think I may try again with the following modifications: Change
'overnight' fermentation (it was awfully active after 12 hrs) to
"until it's quiet." Rather than 'strain into bottles', I'll strain
into another container, let settle for a while, and siphon into
bottles, trying not to disturb the yeast. I will use some kind of
brewing yeast instead of bread yeast. I may wait 'til the weather is
cooler and the proccess isn't quite so rapid. If this works better,
I'll report back.